Talk Dirty To Me
Three different friends with four different perspectives on kink, fetish, and sex, talking dirty to each other. Enjoy personal journeys, stories, confessions, and guest experts on all things "dirty".
Talk Dirty To Me
(RERUN) - Unveiling the Sensual Universe: Ruan Willows Erotica Writing
Ever wondered what's it like to navigate the intriguing world of erotica writing? Ruan Willow, an erotic film author, podcast host, and sex blogger, and Josephine Wilder, an accomplished author and narrator, invite you to follow their unique journeys. From Ruan's transition into the realm of sensual literature to Josephine's venture into voice narration and BDSM-themed works, we've got you covered!
We dive deeper into the endless landscape of erotica, unveiling the various kinks and fetishes that can be found in size erotica and BDSM narratives. We delve into the dynamic world of audio erotica, shedding light on how the power of sound enhances the erotic experience. But it's not all about the sensual; we also discuss the importance of diversity and representation in erotica, with a note on the dominant male perspective in traditional pornography and how erotica offers a more immersive experience through the female gaze.
The conversation doesn't stop there! We grapple with the controversies of consensual non-consent and censorship of explicit content. We also delve into the marketing challenges within the genre, weigh the strategy of quantity over quality, and address the significance of building a fan base. Whether you are an ardent fan of erotica, an aspiring writer, or a curious listener, you will find this conversation enlightening and engaging. Don't let this opportunity slip away - join us and gain unparalleled insights into the fascinating universe of erotica writing!
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Well, well, well, go ahead and open up your ears, your mind and whatever else you need. You're listening to Talk Dirty To Me.
Speaker 2:Hello all you sexy beasts and welcome back to Talk Dirty To Me, the podcast where four different friends with four different perspectives on kink, fetish and sex talk dirty to one another. And here we are again with another fabulous guest for you today. But first I will introduce our host. As usual, we have Tosin Aoufesso, the kink oracle.
Speaker 3:Hello.
Speaker 2:Sarah Marie Currie here with us. She has blessed us with her presence in the middle of her play rehearsal.
Speaker 4:You're welcome.
Speaker 2:And Stephanie Slayton, the queen of Zabankos, howdy y'all and myself. Kasey, your local femdom, and with us we have Ruan Willow. Hello, ruan. Hello. I'm a fan of the erotic film author, the podcast host for oh Fuck yeah, a sex blogger, a voiceover actor, and her most recent book is Ruins Beach Getaway. Is that correct?
Speaker 6:Yeah, it just released as an audiobook. The paperback, or paperback and ebook, have been out for a while.
Speaker 2:Fantastic, and so let's get into it. How long have you been writing erotica?
Speaker 6:I started around 2019. Before that, I was writing regular romance and other things nonfiction, a lot of nonfiction and I just decided I wanted to include sex in my stories because it was more real Relationships have fucking in it. So I wanted to have that to my stories. So that was my first foray into it was I started on Twitter. I just started on a total whim. I just started an account and I started to write little snippets of erotica and that was my first steps into it. That was 2019.
Speaker 2:On your non erotic writing. Are you also Ruan Willow? No, that would be my real name, okay. So Ruan Willow is my pen name. We won't talk about that.
Speaker 6:I know.
Speaker 2:It's like a separate world. So do you still do non erotic writing? Are you fully erotic now?
Speaker 6:No, I do. I just really am focusing on erotica more right now because it's doing well, so really just kind of plowing away at it. But I do have other books that I have under my real name that I need to go back and revise. But I have one published with a publisher and another one that is on hold because of the whole COVID mess, but hopefully, it will eventually come out.
Speaker 2:So can you tell us the moment? So actually, let's start here. Do you have any? Of course, you don't have to answer if you don't want to any specific kinks.
Speaker 6:Specific kinks. I definitely like the whole daddy Dom, little girl kink.
Speaker 6:I love dirty talk, yes, I just, I don't know. I have a lot of. I guess I have a lot of interest in it. It kind of reflects in my writing because I write all across the board. I write things, you know. I have lesbian stories, women love and women. I have Dom little girl. I have things all across the board. So I don't just I'm not one of those people that just sits in one area, one genre of erotica. I just I can't restrict myself that way.
Speaker 2:So you write like you write kink into your stories. Oh yeah, mm-hmm, Definitely.
Speaker 6:Yes, on different levels. So the books all are kind of different, different levels.
Speaker 4:I've already started creeping heavy on Goodreads and Tosen. There's a book called the Oral King. There it is, that's a really short book.
Speaker 3:It's a bibliography. It's about Tosen.
Speaker 6:That one was really fun because I do another thing on my podcast where I do erotic improv or I just sit down and I just will like make up a story off the top of my fucking head and that's how that story started. I had, you know, the characters in my head. Sometimes I have a scene, sometimes I have just a few notes and I just I just spin a story, and so that's how that story began, and then I edit it and I turn it into a little novella.
Speaker 4:And Casey, for you there's a book called the Femme Dom Coven. Doesn't that sound like a Casey Bob? Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:I'm so glad that you were so thoughtful and considerate and wrote a book for all of the hosts here today.
Speaker 6:Exactly that one is a collaboration, so it's an anthology. We did three books, and so that was one of them that we did. So yeah those are all Femme Dom stories and it's like anthology. All three of them are anthologies. So when?
Speaker 2:you okay, you are a career writer. Is that correct? That's super impressive to me, because I know so many people that want to be writers and it's apparently very difficult.
Speaker 1:Oh, it is Fuck yeah to you.
Speaker 2:When in your life, how early in your life, did you realize what your kinks were?
Speaker 6:Well, when I think back, I had, I had lots of kinks when I hadn't even been exposed to those things yet, which I find kind of strange. I don't know that I can explain that, but absolutely.
Speaker 5:That's awesome. I'm right there with you. I knew as a child, so I'm right there with you. Before I knew what sex was, before anything, I knew what my kink was. I didn't know that it was a kink, but Right, yeah, rune.
Speaker 4:I was like, oh, I'm going to be a good kid and being like, aw, that whole situation in Fern Gully was deeply erotic or whatever, definitely as a teenager.
Speaker 6:I remember that. I don't remember so much as a young child, but I do remember that as a teenager I was just like you know, like just blown away by something and you know, yeah, what was it. I remember watching the movie Wild Orchid with my friend. I don't even remember what the movie was about, really, but I do remember my dad came storming out of the room and was like, are you guys watching something about sex? Like he was like pissed at us and I was like I was just a good little liar and I'm like, no, no, definitely not, dad. Amazing.
Speaker 4:It's quite the memory.
Speaker 6:It was me and my best friend.
Speaker 4:I would die if my dad ran into the Roman asked if I was watching something about sex. I would just throw the TV out the window.
Speaker 6:Maybe the first time I've heard him say sex to you, and maybe the only time.
Speaker 2:At this point in my life. He came in and said that I'd say absolutely, would you like to join me? I mean, I don't actually want to watch sex with my dad, but nothing would get him to leave the room faster you know than me.
Speaker 5:Okay, that had a happy ending because I was Don't worry, don't worry Okay.
Speaker 2:So, when you write erotica, where do you like? Where do you pull the erotic moments from? Is it just whatever is inspired in the moment? Is it based on your own experience with sex, or do you write things that you don't know about? Or are they fantasies, maybe? How do you come out writing an erotic moment?
Speaker 6:The answer is yes. All of those, all of those things. And you know I write very quickly and so I don't ever really get writer's block for very long. I just have to stop because I have to do something else or run out of time. So you know, I'll sit down and I'll just. I mean, I've been known to write 4,000 words in a morning. You know, like that's just to just kind of flies out of me Like I'm watching a movie.
Speaker 2:You know like 4,000 words in the morning like you wake up and write 4,000 words, yeah.
Speaker 6:The fastest I ever wrote a book. This kind of this even floors me. I wrote a book in two weeks straight. What, and it?
Speaker 3:was what.
Speaker 6:It was like maybe 65, 70,000 words. It's the fastest I ever wrote a book.
Speaker 5:Is there some sort of book Olympics or like? That's gotta be up there? That's crazy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, how much is 4,000 words? I don't.
Speaker 6:my brand doesn't have a reference for that, like if you're going to read it. If you narrated it, 5,000 words would take you about a half hour to say, so 10,000 words would be an hour of narration. I don't know to sad help, but in audio terms.
Speaker 2:It's a lot. It is a lot. What is your favorite? So do you come up with stories and then, based around erotic situations, do you want to write or do you come up with the stories and just fit the erotic situations in as they, as they come, arise?
Speaker 6:I've kind of done both, but I usually have the characters in mind. I don't usually start with just an idea. I usually have the characters kind of in mind and what they're going to do, so kind of, it's kind of coincides at the same time often, so I kind of kind of like dream it up at the same time. I guess if I did anything, I normally would think of characters first and then see where they go, and sometimes they just go places I don't expect them to and that's always kind of fun too where it's just kind of like like it's a movie playing, like it's just happening and you just spill it out and so hold on.
Speaker 2:Let me look up at the name of the book again. It's called the Roon's Beach Getaway. That's your latest erotica. Can you tell us the premise of that?
Speaker 6:Yeah, so this is a trilogy. I haven't written the third one yet. I already know a lot about it already. But the first book it's a it's a milk story, so it's a older woman with actually the character is ruined who is an author, so it's based on my pen name, and she meets this young man online and they start a relationship and so they meet for the first time in a cabin in Colorado and they just their goal is to fulfill each other's fantasies, and so they do all these new things, all these different kinks. They fuck in every room.
Speaker 4:It's a lot of sex.
Speaker 6:So the first book is very, very smutty, very, very sex-filled. And then the second one. They go to the beach and so they're renting a beach house and they're starting to develop feelings for each other. So this one rolls into more of an erotic romance, but they're still dealing with the fact that they have this age gap, Like she's in her 40s and he's in his 20s.
Speaker 2:So I like that. That's the way the age gap goes. He gets that.
Speaker 6:And a lot of women like that. The woman is older because in a lot of these books the man is older and there aren't a whole lot of stories out there where the woman is older, so that's something that people do like about the book. And so this is an audio book that just came out. So, like I said, the other were out, others were out. The e-book and the paperback were out maybe like a year ago, so this is just just now. The audio book just released this month.
Speaker 5:And you do the voice narration for your book oh cool. I think that's awesome.
Speaker 6:So for this one I decided to not try and do a man voice. I decided to hire two men to narrate with me. So I narrated the guys, the men from the 69 Whiskey podcast, and so that was really fun. It was really fun too because both of them this is like their dream for both of them to narrate a book, right. So I was on their podcast and they were talking about how they want, how they want one of them had gone to school for it and the other one. They both wanted to get into it and I'm like, well, I'm often looking for narrators, so then I decided to hire them. So, like it was so fun to me to like give them like a dream of theirs, like that's. I still can't get over how exciting and fun that is to be able to do that for someone you know like that's just so cool yeah.
Speaker 6:It's so cool, and so we're doing a second book together too. So we're just amazing, is?
Speaker 3:there a podcast. How do I get on the narrative?
Speaker 6:Well, if you, if you want to be on the list, you're on it right now.
Speaker 2:Perfect Ta-da. Joseph has a very sexy sex voice.
Speaker 6:He does I know I was listening to. I think I listened to one, like you were reading a poem, I think on Instagram. Oh yeah, it was very sexy yeah.
Speaker 2:That was me posting him on Instagram in the sexy poetry corner. He has all sorts of sexy poems.
Speaker 3:It's pretty nice To be fair, though I don't play one that nobody's heard, and have you judge me with your work.
Speaker 2:It was your wordsmith. I will never say no to having you play a poem for us to say Right and also, can you just read the phone book, cause I feel like that would also be sexy.
Speaker 3:Just saying, yeah, great, I was like an incredibly pleasant voice and I was like looking for I'm creeping on the world king, and I was like I hope you read this one.
Speaker 6:Yes, I would like to do all of them eventually, but you know it takes a while. And I do narrate for other authors too, because I just like that experience and I just kind of want to broaden. I feel like it helps broaden my reach too, because then their fans will hear me narrate their books, you know. So I try to do other authors in my own. That's awesome, if you ever need ladies, I'll help you. Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 4:I'll also read some sexy books. I'll also. There are three sexy books for you.
Speaker 5:I'll do them if they're spanking in it.
Speaker 6:There is the woman. Love and woman has spanking in it, and so the first book in ruins, cabin getaway. There's some actually in both of those are some spanking in both of those actually ruins beach getaway and cabin. But the magic in her kisses is there's a lot of spanking in that one.
Speaker 2:What's your all time best selling book?
Speaker 6:I would say it probably is at this point, it probably is magic in her kisses and that one is sold the most audio books and the most paperbacks. I would say, what is?
Speaker 2:that one about.
Speaker 6:That's the woman love and woman one. So this one was really fun to write. So this is actually based on a fantasy that I had in college, and so this is a college professor and her student, and her student is also working in her lab. So not only is she her student, she is her employee and they start down this relationship and she's a really super nerdy professor and she starts to realize, oh my.
Speaker 6:God. She starts to realize, as they are going here, that she is a dominant, that she is a dom, and the girl, the college student, doesn't really realize she's much of a sub, like. In fact, at first she's like kind of rejecting that, but then she starts to realize she is a sub and so they develop this relationship where they're exploring BDSM, a lot of spanking, and she is realizing that she is a dom. It's so fun because I loved it, because both of them don't know what the fuck they're doing and they're not following all the rules of what you're supposed to do if you're a dom and what you're supposed to do if you're a sub. You know, like they're figuring it out.
Speaker 6:So they do all kinds of crazy things and I got to pop up, I need to get down. There we go. It's really. It was really fun to write and some people have read the book and my favorite comments are the one who said Jesus, fucking Christ, is a 13 year old boy write this and I'm like, yes. And my next favorite one was people who love Maddie, who is a college professor. They love her character because she's just so nerdy and lovable and she's trying to figure out what she's doing, and so that was a really fun one for me to write and that was a really long answer, sorry.
Speaker 5:No, no, I love the long answers. I am buying it right now.
Speaker 6:So I narrated that one myself and I originally was going to narrate it with Leilani Lei, who is a amateur porn star. It just broke my heart because she could not get it to the level. Her and I narrated a book together. We narrated passion to seduce together and I got her audio to work for that book. But I couldn't get it to work and she recorded the lines twice for this book and I couldn't get it to pass. I couldn't get it good enough. So she just broke my heart. I had to not use her, even though I paid for her to narrate it.
Speaker 6:Oh, that's a bummer, and she's my friend too. It was just, you know, she didn't want to narrate it a third time and I'm like I get it, I get it, so I ended up doing the whole thing myself.
Speaker 2:Acting, voice over acting is hard. Everybody that you're looking at right now is an actor and I've definitely I think we've all tried voice over acting at some point, probably toasting the most, and I know that it's a totally different ballgame. You can't acting doesn't necessarily translate well to it, and if you don't have acting skills and you just try it, who knows what you fall back on. But I can appreciate somebody trying it and it just not working.
Speaker 5:I one time there rated a short story and they told me well, we've never, ever had to stop this much for someone to clear their throat.
Speaker 3:And I was like oh, great.
Speaker 2:They ain't rude, that is rude. I love that for me. Thank you so much for telling me that statistic.
Speaker 5:It really helps me feel good about what I'm doing.
Speaker 4:No, I win. Really helps my process. Yeah, Sorry my bad.
Speaker 3:I'm allergic to you being a asshole. You can work on that a little bit. I think this will work out a little better for everybody.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sarah Marie, can you pull up a whole list of ruins Book titles?
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I have it pulled up on Goodreads. Give me one second.
Speaker 2:I just want to hear all the titles.
Speaker 6:I don't have them all on there, but I have a lot of them on there. Some of them because now Spotify is now having audiobooks, which is so awesome, but some of them are just on Spotify, which is so cool, oh nice.
Speaker 4:No, that's not it. Hold on. Hold on. Books by Ruan Willow Lockdown Lust a collection of steamy stories from the 2020 coronavirus pandemic.
Speaker 6:Some of them are ones I narrated for other people, so that's one I narrated for a man who wrote that, oh, Some of them are audiobooks, Some are paper books or books sorry, Shrinking on schedule.
Speaker 4:the social function, the Magic and Abilities Collection, volume 8, Late Night's Size Club inside of. Ruan Willow.
Speaker 2:What is OK, hold on. What is Late Night's Size Club?
Speaker 6:OK, so I narrate for a woman who writes Size Erotica, which is Macrophilia, and Microphilia, which is the growth and shrinking of people, and so this is a first book. I narrated for her Late Night Size Club and I laughed so hard when I first read it, because what happens is people grow into giantesses or goddesses and they have sex, they fuck, and then sometimes people shrink down and become a human dildo and sometimes so it's. All these crazy things happen. So this story was so fun because you have been holding out Ruan.
Speaker 2:What Wait? So somebody shrinks down and they become the size of a penis, and then and then people use them as a penis.
Speaker 6:Yes, and so these are. This is the. This is Amber Collins. So if you look up Amber Collins on Amazon, you will find so much fucking content. This woman writes so much erotica and it's sometimes it's Femme Dom, where it's the goddess is big and just using the man. There are sometimes where the woman gets big and can give an easy blow job. I mean, she just goes all over the place. So it's kind of like fantasy, sci-fi, erotica and she just does all these different things and I've narrated a very amount of books for her.
Speaker 4:It's really fun. On Goodreads it says it's by you, but it's not by you. It's just sometimes read by you there are.
Speaker 6:Some of them are audio books that I narrated Yep by other authors, and then other ones are mine, and I don't have them all on there because you actually have to manually add them to Goodreads which really sucks because it takes time and so I don't have them all on there.
Speaker 4:But bless Goodreads, bless it.
Speaker 2:I wish it was automatic, ok, so you read, you narrated this story and it's just about people all of a sudden becoming large and having large sex together or becoming small and having small sex together.
Speaker 6:Right, and sometimes one's getting big and one's getting small, so like, for instance I'll give an example of this One of the ones I just did is a three women story and they take this potion and they want to shrink down and go inside this dollhouse and they do all kinds of kinky stuff in the dollhouse and then they grow big again. Another one is the women go to Paris and they're paid by some benefactor and they have to drink this potion and they have to turn into giant tessus which, like, they're like 300 feet tall, and they destroy Paris and then I'll do a spoiler, because it's really fucking funny Then they go to the Eiffel Tower and it's their dildo you know stuff like that.
Speaker 6:Oh she goes. Her mind is just she has all this crazy stuff and sometimes it's really like really femdom, like cruel, and sometimes it's not. She does women, women, women on women. She does men and women, she does multiples. Sometimes it's very sciencey, sometimes it's just less sciencey, but she's, I think she's written. What did she say? I think she has over a million words on Amazon. Wow Of her right, she has a lot of content. I mean, if you scroll through her on Amazon, so much content.
Speaker 2:Are there other weird? I'm sorry it's not weird. Are there other I just want to hear? I feel like you probably have a letter of kinks that you've written about or narrated about, and I'm just trying to figure out how to ask the right question.
Speaker 4:What's the most nuanced? Or like, yeah, obscure one, obscure.
Speaker 6:Obscure? How would you define obscure? I'm trying to think of how I would put that in Confusing or like people that like belly buttons, for example, maybe Littleest amount of people who know about Got it Okay.
Speaker 6:A lot of people don't know about the size of erotica, but there's a huge following of it out there, so that's probably, I would say, those books are. Probably the most less well-known kinks Are the. You know, she does a lot of things with feet too, like people who like feet. I guess that those would probably be the ones that would fit that category.
Speaker 2:Okay, are there any more? Are there common kinks that you write about a lot frequently? Like you talked about Dom and sub relationships, what about like Shibari or Rope Play or Needle Play? I have not done much of that.
Speaker 6:But I might be doing it in the next book. I just actually just interviewed the two men that narrated with me and I asked them what they thought what I should put in the next book, and one of them said Rope or suspension sensation by an edge. You know, doing edge play with, which is just as interesting. I never even heard this before. He was talking about using wooden knives to remove wax off of people, and I would never have heard of that. Wait, that's a king.
Speaker 2:Yes, and so like there's you drew wax on people.
Speaker 6:You've never heard this before. Yes, so actually on Amazon they sell low heat candles that you can use you should always use low heat candles and you get wax and you pour it on people and it's a sensation play.
Speaker 2:And then you'd scrape it off with the wooden knives.
Speaker 6:That's the new part I'd ever heard about before. And he told me there's this company that now makes wooden knives for sex play and one of the things you do is, yeah, just to remove the wax, the dried wax, off of the person. So it's a sensation play because it's hot, but it's not as hot as a regular candle. That's why you gotta use the low heat candles and they sell it. They actually sell them on Amazon. Don't mind me, just bring it up right now.
Speaker 6:I find out about so many kinks too, because I just guess I have on and things I've narrated and just wooden knives.
Speaker 4:The specificity of wooden knives is weird.
Speaker 6:I know this man's really into knives and knife play and that kind of stuff, and so he said that people who make these take like I don't know what, do you say Three to four hours to make a whittle and knife, and then they have to treat it so that it is okay to use on the skin. But he said it's like a little bit less dangerous but he'll even use regular knives so he's not afraid of that kind of stuff. But it's a little bit safer with a wooden knife.
Speaker 6:I think, you can't heal somebody, obviously with a wooden knife.
Speaker 2:Everybody who uses this. Don't use real knives. Don't do it. Use a wooden knife, please.
Speaker 4:Unless you also like blood play, blood and wax play, which I'm sure there's a king for.
Speaker 2:Unless you're into knife play already.
Speaker 4:Unless you're getting consent and you've talked to your doctor in medical health care professional A whole checklist.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there we go, we covered it we covered the bases, yeah, and you have not written about handles and wooden knives, or you have. I'm sorry, but we covered for a whole other topic.
Speaker 6:I have not he suggested that, like when I said what do you think I should put in the next book, Cause they know they're all excited for the next book and I'll probably have them narrate with me again. But so yeah, that was one of the things he suggested and I think it's just cause he's just starting to get into that himself. He does do rope too, but he's slowly getting into that. But he does a lot of pretty. I mean, he'll like even do like blood play. So and I don't know that I could ever write that, because I've never done that. That seems like a hard one to write if you've never done such a thing.
Speaker 2:I bet you could. I believe in you. You just need to talk to somebody who is Tosen likes it.
Speaker 4:So what's your writing process Like? Do you have, like I, from the? Are you a strict writer, like from the hours of 6 am to 9 am I write for three, or are you like, as inspiration hits you, you like run over to your laptop and start writing? A little bit of both?
Speaker 6:A little bit of both. Yeah, right now I feel like the audio is kind of taking over, because I have the podcast and then just a lot of audio books and audio books. You make a lot of money on audio books more than you do on ebooks and paperback, ebook or the least amount. You make the least amount of money on those. So I've been kind of focusing on that a little bit. So when I do write, I'm writing less right now, which I don't like. But I am writing a new book and I'm writing in a way I've never written before, so that's really interesting to me too. So I kind of have done all different things. I sit down and with an idea in mind, sometimes I just have characters in mind, and this time, right now, I'm writing a book called Neighborhood Sex Secrets, and I've never written a book this way. I'm writing it not in chronological order for the first time ever. Normally I write straight chronological, but this time I'm writing, I've written.
Speaker 2:You start with the breakup sex and then you end with getting to know you sex.
Speaker 6:I've written, I think, four or five sex scenes and one non-sex scene, and so it's not. The sex scenes are kind of chronological because they'll fit, like in that order in a book, but I have to fill in the story in between those sex scenes right now. So, and I've never written a book this way before, so it's quite an experience.
Speaker 2:Wait, I'm sorry, did you just say you have to fill? You have to fill in the story between the sex scenes. So you wrote all the sex scenes and you're like how do I put them together? I've written you basically ate dessert, first ruin.
Speaker 6:I did, I did yes, and I'm gonna have more dessert before it's over.
Speaker 2:Yeah, hell yeah. So this is for a ceremony and for you ruin. I'm curious as a consumer of erotica ceremony, what is it you find is missing often in erotica, if anything? And same for you ruin.
Speaker 4:I personally, as only a consumer, I feel like there's so many because of the revolution of having like e-books, being able to publish. There's so much more out there that you can find, and so you can find like your straight up smut which is just like I just want really good banging written really like sexy, steamy stuff.
Speaker 4:I personally really love when you can find the area in between the smutty, smut and the like beautiful, heart-rending story. But it really depends on what mood I'm in. Like if I wanna get really stressed out, I'll read like some Sira Simone or some Pam Godwin. But if I wanna just like have a nice vacation time, I've got other writers that I'm like oh, that's nice, and we just have a pleasant time where nothing angsty happens.
Speaker 4:Just sex yeah sometimes, or sometimes you can read like a novel with like really good sex scenes in it, depending on the writer and the style and the story.
Speaker 2:Are those? Are they all considered erotica?
Speaker 4:Yeah, for the. For the most part they're in the romance slash erotica, I think. Anytime the sex is really descriptive, they they mark it as erotica, even if it's romance first or urban fantasy first, if it's got sexy sex.
Speaker 2:They're like oh, erotic urban fantasy or whatever.
Speaker 4:Personally, I find it hard to find really good vampire erotica writers. But when I do find them I'm like yeah, that's real good, and when they're bad, I get you. You've talked to me on our other podcast. I get a rationally mad at bad vampire lore?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you do. And what about you, rowan? Do you feel like there's anything missing from the erotic industry at large as far as like how it's written or how sex is written?
Speaker 6:Well, I totally agree with her. It's it. There's a huge gradient and so you've got, you know, you've got smut on one end and then you've got kind of erotica and then you've got erotic romance, and then you keep on going up the gradient. You're going to get to romance, and some of the romance stories may have like one sex scene in the entire book and so they're probably going to be more categorized as romance. So it's kind of more of a gradient.
Speaker 6:So it's kind of hard to say what's missing, other than maybe enough on a particular topic. I could see how you know there's not a lot of. I was talking about this with an author who writes fantasy like the oh, what is that? Called Omegaverse. You know what that is? Okay, it's kind of like fantasy, erotica. But her and I were talking about this. I just interviewed her for the podcast. It hasn't gone live yet, but she writes characters in middle age and her point was there aren't a lot of, and this is true. And then this is why I also write characters in middle age. There isn't a lot of erotica where the characters are middle aged.
Speaker 3:It's a lot of young people.
Speaker 6:They're young, they're 20s, and you know her and I were talking about that how interesting it is, how they're having these young people acting like they have all this life experience, like they're 40, you know, 30, 40, 50 years old, and so it doesn't really fit. I'm like we're actually good at sex, right Like they actually know what they're talking about and then so it is interesting. So she has a lot of people who really like her books because her characters are middle, middle aged, and so I think that's a hole in the market that there needs to be more of that. I do feel like there isn't a whole lot of milk stories or some is getting better, but that's an area that I think can grow to.
Speaker 2:I'm surprised because this is also what I was trying to get at. Born is largely done through the the male gaze. It's very geared towards what men want to see and I feel like when I understand many erotica romance novel writers are email. I have yet to meet anybody who is a man who says he writes erotica. I've met maybe like half of a person.
Speaker 6:I know some, but but I'm in that, you know I'm in that genre, so I know I know men who do write it and can write it well. But you're right, more women, it's definitely more printed, more dominated by women.
Speaker 2:So I'm wondering if, then, that the sex and romance novels is more through the female gaze and sex as women would see it, and then if and then men probably don't read it because they're like the sex is terrible, there's no pounding, there's no, I think.
Speaker 4:I think you know it depends on the dude, but the investment of imagination and focus in a in an erotic novel, is just different. Right, like, I got to read words and think about them and imagine them, which for for me is part of the appeal, because my, my first erotic zone is my brain, right, my first erotic zone is my kneecap. That makes sense.
Speaker 5:Is is them? Is there a way to speculate or like to gauge audiences? Like would you say that the majority of readers are female or erotica Cause? I feel like I don't know men, and maybe they just don't tell me. I just don't know any that read erotica.
Speaker 6:I do know some, cause I have readers who are men, but of course I think that there are a lot of. It is predominantly more women, but a lot of people like erotica because, like you said, you can immerse yourself more in the story. It's not meant to you like it is through a movie or porn. You know there isn't much leeway, you know you're, you can be immersed into a story. You can imagine what they look like.
Speaker 6:And you're looking at porn, you know what they look like. You can't be like oh no, she's not wander.
Speaker 2:You know, I mean.
Speaker 6:I mean you could try, but that's like a big effort, you know.
Speaker 4:I was just going to say. My imagination is the camera right, so I get to put it anywhere I want to, and I'm also inside of the experience and the way that the writer describes the experiences. So can be so beautiful and so interesting and also fucking hilarious, like the different ways that people have found to name plunging genuses and dropping vaginas.
Speaker 2:Whatever Members quivering members.
Speaker 4:I'm not. I'm not a writer. Like thrusting potatoes and undulating non-chose.
Speaker 6:No, I'm hungry.
Speaker 5:I think I'm just hungry Next in food.
Speaker 2:I tried to write an erotic novel once with a friend. We tag teamed in. It was a guy I'm going to tell you the premise, because I still think the premise is great.
Speaker 4:Do you have it Read it? I do have it. Find it Read it. It's too long to read.
Speaker 2:It's also too bad.
Speaker 4:Nobody would want to Break me a snippet of your terrible, or rather cheesy I'm just going to tell you what it's about.
Speaker 2:Okay, nobody steal this, it's mine. Okay, doctor, do you need me audience? It's mine.
Speaker 4:Rowan, please steal this and do it better, Rowan you can steal it.
Speaker 5:You can steal it. You can hear it.
Speaker 2:I'll have a poem at the end of the episode Okay, so the book is called foreign, okay, and the premise is that earth is the red light district of the universe, and so I'm on the fucking board. And so aliens come from all around through this like portal in an alley somewhere to basically fuck humans, because we're so slutty and easy.
Speaker 2:So so all these different crazy aliens end up on earth and there's these clubs around that if you're in the know, you can find these clubs and you can get into them, you can say the password or wherever, and it's just like a mix of aliens and people. Sometimes the people don't know, sometimes they do, sometimes they want to have sex with crazy aliens. So the sex scenes are all like humans having sex with like all these different aliens and all the different ways aliens have sex and stuff like that.
Speaker 4:Oh my gosh, there's such an audience for this there is For sure Audience for that Such a good premise.
Speaker 2:We wrote the whole thing. We even took like an excursion, like a trip to Mexico to do nothing other than like sit there and write it, and we did it oh nice. And neither of us are novel writers, right. So we did it and then we went home and then we put it down for a while and we picked it up and we read it again and we were like, wow, this is bad, oh no. This is very bad Whoops.
Speaker 5:And there was some story that wove it together.
Speaker 2:That's pretty good it was like two people who were like trying to figure out like what was happening and why it was happening and kind of shut it down because there were bad aliens and they were good aliens and they were trying to get rid of the bad aliens and they have a friend of one another alien. That was there trying to like shut down the bad aliens or something I can't remember. But basically human and alien sex is what was happening. And then we really wanted to write a sequel and the sequel was going to be called it. Just based on titles. We wanted to write a sequel Domestic.
Speaker 4:No, it was called, it was called Black Hole. Oh my goodness, casey, remove all the like plot parts, just release it as short story sex.
Speaker 2:As humans with aliens, Human sex. I thought about doing that. I was like well, let's just extract the sex recorder and do like, oh, that's a good idea.
Speaker 4:Give us some Patreon content. There you go. That's what I'm going to turn it into. Call the second.
Speaker 3:Domestic, if you must have a through line for it. Just make it like one person who has arrested all these people and they're getting evidence. So it's just like back to back.
Speaker 5:Recanting their stories. I see, I see.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like this. All right, it's happening. It's happening. I'm starting it up again. I'm starting the business up again.
Speaker 4:And then later there can be like a like, a like a drug smuggling ring or something Bananas that like brings it all together?
Speaker 2:Who cares? No one cares. Well, they all end up having sex together. So it's.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 3:The very very like the alien story is so hot that the We've all been talking about.
Speaker 4:We haven't asked the professional ruin. Is this a good idea or a bad idea?
Speaker 6:I think it sounds like a great idea.
Speaker 4:Yes, it's approved. Writer approved.
Speaker 2:Writer approved. Also fun fact, my sister-in-law is Helen Hogan.
Speaker 5:Oh, cool yeah.
Speaker 2:She's married to my brother. I don't know what she was thinking.
Speaker 5:The kids together and everything.
Speaker 2:Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow.
Speaker 5:Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow, wow Wow.
Speaker 4:Does he?
Speaker 2:look like you, but a boy no, he's more masculine. Well, yeah, but Right.
Speaker 4:He looks like really good looking.
Speaker 5:No, no, no, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:You can't just turn me into a boy and have my brother.
Speaker 4:You have to take.
Speaker 2:You have to. You have to turn me into a boy and then turn this testosterone up to 150.
Speaker 3:I like he's? Is that more hair and sweatier yeah?
Speaker 4:Is it jawline? Is it muscle hair? It's brow ridges.
Speaker 5:It's like six foot something.
Speaker 2:He's a giant human. He's not fat or weight or anything. He's just like a giant, Like he could do the macrophilia, microphilia. I think he's just a huge person. Why haven't I?
Speaker 4:seen a picture of him.
Speaker 2:Why is there not a poster?
Speaker 4:up in my bedroom, because if there's a boy version of you with more testosterone, because my crush on you is already like really substantial for like two on the Kinsey scale. It's weird, right.
Speaker 3:Doesn't make any sense. I'll climb the other Sammy tree.
Speaker 2:Yeah, amazing. I'll let him know, I'll send him a snippet.
Speaker 3:Ruin, I want you to judge me.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, play a poem please let's judge Tozen.
Speaker 3:I'm gonna send you the link so you can read the words as we go.
Speaker 2:Are you gonna say it out loud Tozen, Are you gonna play it?
Speaker 3:I can play it or say it, whatever you prefer. I'll send you the link so you can read the words as we go.
Speaker 1:I can taste it, looking into your eyes, how bad you want me Copy to paste in. And let's face it. We've tiptoed around it and now we're sprinting, trying to chase memories of how good my hands around your waist is, how good your hips grinding into my faces. We've done our best, trying to erase it, trying to hide our hearts, racing, trying to pace it. But now the race is reaching its finish line. Resolve is broken and it's finally time. And you have a look in your eyes that says you're taking the reins and I'm happy to give them to you.
Speaker 1:Simple and plain. You stand in front of me and tell me to order you from top to bottom, and I do so with reverence, patience and deference. Soaking in every inch of your skin is my fingertips. Slide from neck to shoulder, spine to hips, watching as you stare at me, hungry, biting your lips. I slide to your thighs and down to your toes and step back to watch as you glean my heart beating in my chest and my pants bursting at the seams. And then, as if you were in hands of my dreams, you strip me of my clothes and lie me on the bed, slide your perfect body over me and I can feel you hard against my chest, grabbing me by the shoulders. From my lips escape, yes, please. You tell me to bend over so you can show me what belongs to you and your right. It belongs to you.
Speaker 1:The moment your tongue touches my whole, I'm buried, resurrected, reborn and made whole. Breathing becomes unnecessary for your need is my respiration Fuck, you feel so good Leaves my lips without hesitation and in my mind I'm begging. But you tease me. I'm shaking with anticipation. Your mouth is taking me on a journey while your fingers find their destination and I crumble with pleasure as they make the entrance. And if the quaking isn't enough indication, you hear me say how can you feel this good?
Speaker 1:And then I finally feel the penetration and I'm consumed by your need as you let free everything you've been hiding and holding, while your hands are on my back and I'm grunting and moaning, hips meeting yours, hungry and groaning. I'm out of your neck. Feel so good, keep going, keep going. And you keep going and going, taking you in until you're satisfied, till you have your fill and your whole body is gratified. I'm mystified, starry eyed, drowning and mesmerized, and I turn to the side so I can see the hunger in your eyes, time stops and you plung into me hard one more time and both our dreams are realized, as we explode into an onto each other and we lay there holding each other as we return to reality, gather our faculties and burn this moment into our memories and steadily and passionately hold each other. And I sit and I wonder, but not for long. I must prepare for another, because I just saw your eyes and they're still filled with hunger.
Speaker 3:I need a cigarette.
Speaker 2:Will you stop sharing your screen?
Speaker 6:Oh, I thought it was delicious. I am very intense and yummy. I would definitely give you. I'm gonna. I enjoyed it. I'm gonna give you a 10. You made ruin giggle.
Speaker 3:I will take that 10. No notes other than the lowercase. I am the last paragraph, but no, no, no suggestions, no, I enjoyed it.
Speaker 6:I enjoyed hearing your voice and I like to close my eyes and often for me it really helps me focus. If I'm reading something, I almost immerse myself more if I close my eyes and not taking in any in any other, you know, whatever I'm not taking in anything else but your sound. So that's what I did when I was listening a good portion of what you're saying, and it was. I was definitely immersed and I enjoyed it. That was good.
Speaker 2:Is that how you prefer to listen to erotica as well? Audio books and you just close your eyes.
Speaker 6:Yeah, when I'm editing, I often will do that on some parts, especially if I'm trying to decide between two lines of like dialogue. Easier for me to focus and deal it, I close my eyes while I listen. So I often will do that because I don't know. It just helps me focus better and helps me make a decision like oh no, that's it, and you know it. Just if I do that I'm like oh yeah, that's it, another one's not, you know. So which is? You know what I like to do, you know, not always with myself, because I'm listening to myself. If I don't like the line, I'll redo it, but if I have lines from somebody else, I'll have them do a couple versions of it, of the dialogue, and then I'll often close my eyes and listen to them and pick which one sounds some more right.
Speaker 2:Nice, do you listen to? That poem is magnificent. It is so good it always is.
Speaker 3:It blows me away.
Speaker 2:I want to do karaoke to your poems, like you make me want to like recite your poems to the music.
Speaker 3:Somebody did do that for me. They they read one of my poems, like how they understood it because they're also a writer and I was like that was very insightful. I appreciated that a lot.
Speaker 6:Amazing how different you can say things, how many different ways and you guys know about being, you know acting. You can say things so many different ways. Yeah, you can say so many different things. It's almost unbelievable. Do you ever write a?
Speaker 2:consensual non-consent.
Speaker 6:I have not done that but I would like to. I narrated one that was kind of like that. Or Benson Wolf, that one was. That one was really fun to act out. I actually have done two for him like that.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 6:I mean, I think you know, at some point I probably will do that. I don't think I've done it yet. Is it not your thing? No, I would be my thing. I would definitely write about that.
Speaker 2:And here's a hard hitting question in erotica it doesn't have. It doesn't have to be consensual non-consent, right, it can just mean non-consent.
Speaker 6:You do have to be careful because some platforms will not allow certain content, so you really do have to be careful with that. I know people who have pushed it too far and they get kicked off the platform and they can no longer sell on that platform. So you really do actually have to be a little careful.
Speaker 2:So does that mean within the story the two, the characters, have to consent to consensual non-consent within the story? It can't just be like a non-consent story that everybody consensually reads.
Speaker 6:Yeah, like if it's any, if it is rape, like, you often will get it kicked off, and so there has to be something where I think that is one of the categories that most platforms will not allow if it seems like rape. So there has to be some sort of consent, or you know indicating yes, this is what I want.
Speaker 2:Interesting.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that's like the issue with, like certain platforms not, are taking trigger words off of, even in like the spanking community, like caning and paddling and words like that, which, because spanking is, especially if it's done in like a disciplinary manner, it's technically a form of consensual non-consent, it's you're saying things like no, don't stop out, which you also like to say those because you're not saying the word read, which means stop right now, truly, and so I think, instead of them understanding that and taking the right precautions and having people sign stuff, they just the best way to do it for them is just take it off completely, which is crazy to me, because it's still okay to gang bang on those sites which is so gnarly to me.
Speaker 2:Well, that and like there's so much rape on TV.
Speaker 6:I know, I know there's just a different lens on erotica and what drives me crazy is that you know anything can be advertised on Amazon. You can buy ads for murder, for psychotic killers, they can. You can sell ads for books erotica you can't. They will not let us buy ads to advertise our books because it has sex in it and I'm always like how can you, how can you condone people who are doing that for serial killers?
Speaker 6:and we can't advertise a book about the natural act of sex. It's so fucked up, it's ridiculous, isn't that crazy?
Speaker 2:yeah, because you can take your end what I mean? We'll just add the list of fucked up things that shouldn't be when it comes to sex.
Speaker 6:And you know what's so dumb about it is. You can funnel it into people. You can funnel people can check a box I don't want to see explicit ads. You can funnel it to people who only purchase erotica, but they will not do it. They will not let us. If you try to put an ad or an erotic book on Amazon, it will block you and they say nope, your book has sex in it, too much sex. You can't make an ad, wow. So how do you market your stuff? Well, a lot of it is social media and developing fans, a fan base, and my podcast is another way that I collect people as well, if people are interested. But yeah, you kind of have to. You know you got to work really harder than all the other authors in the world because they can all advertise and we can't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel like there's a huge, huge well of people looking for erotica, though, and that's why Amazon, despite the fact that they don't want to advertise it, there's just like they'll sell it, they'll sell it and there's a huge category of, like the craziest shit, like you know, people fucking dinosaurs. That was a thing for a while with, like the t-rex.
Speaker 4:I read a whole dragon situation by someone a weirdly written by a dude.
Speaker 5:Wow, okay, wait wait wait, wait, wait, the dragon. Someone, someone has intercourse with a dragon.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and someone has intercourse with a T-Rex.
Speaker 4:To be fair, these dragons could transform into dragons and then back into men shaped dragons.
Speaker 5:That makes sense. I was thinking.
Speaker 4:That seems painful and impossible, but I'm sure that that is out there, like if we can think of it. Someone has written an erotic book.
Speaker 6:Oh, that's so true, Originally you got the dragon today. Tenicles. Tenicles are a big thing, mm hmm, yeah, let's.
Speaker 4:Let's not even get into the hentai of it all, because that's, that's a whole different. Oh, yes, well the what.
Speaker 5:What's sorry, what is that?
Speaker 4:It's a form of manga that's sex jewel, so sexy cartoons, tentacle monsters, anime, things like that.
Speaker 5:Oh, but not all anime. There's just anime that does that, or is all anime a form of?
Speaker 4:that no, no, no, it's a. So Hentai is porn anime. Yeah, hentai is porn anime, that's the better way to say it Porn anime.
Speaker 2:OK, yeah, so there was like this rumor on the street for a while that writing erotica was like a really easy, quick way to make like $40,000. Right, was that ever true? Is that true now?
Speaker 6:No, it's very difficult to earn money and you know, for me the audio is what really is a big portion of it for me. But yeah, it's, it's very difficult to and, like I said, ebooks are the cheapest thing to buy. But you know, you might make a dollar on a book. That's not very much. No for ebooks you don't make very much paperback in audio books. You do audio books. You almost make the most off of audiobooks.
Speaker 4:That's so good to know, because a lot of like I buy most of my stuff off of Kindle or off of Amazon, and I always want to make sure my favorite erotic writers who are like they have a lower fan base. I always want to make sure that they're getting the most money that I can give them. So now I'm just going to buy all of their audio books, audio books and paperback or hardback or hardcover.
Speaker 6:They're going to make the most money. On those ebooks they don't make a whole lot of money at all. It's maybe a dollar or two, depending on how long the book is. You know, maybe five bucks a book. That would be the max if it's a really long book.
Speaker 6:But Amazon really controls it how much you can sell a book or based on the size, and also if you're going to sell it exclusively with them, there's different rules. You can get more money from each book if you only sell it with them exclusively, but then you can't offer it anywhere else, and that's for like seven years. So you can't just decide all of a sudden?
Speaker 6:oh, because you have to decide up front where am I going to sell this? Am I going to sell it wide or am I going to sell it only on Amazon? You're going to make the most money if you only sell it on Amazon, right.
Speaker 2:So that is true.
Speaker 6:Evil.
Speaker 3:If I use my audible credit, do you still get paid?
Speaker 6:Yes, and I still have to figure that out. But yes, we still do get paid, but I still need to figure that out because it's so hard to figure out their whole payment system because there's so many different ways. So, yes, you do. I just don't know if it's the same as if you buy outright by the book, but we do get paid.
Speaker 3:You let me know and I will supplement whatever my audible credit didn't get you. I bought the oral kit. Oh, did you?
Speaker 6:Yay, and I have, and I'm always giving them away too because I want, I need reviews. So that's the one nice thing that Amazon does is they give you almost unlimited books to give away audio books to try and get more reviews, because they're really trying to grow as an audio book platform. So all of those books. If anybody wants one, I have codes to get them for free, so amazing.
Speaker 3:That book is autobiographical Is it. It's the interracial couple with the man who was eating pussy, but that's it.
Speaker 6:Oh yeah, that's what it is about.
Speaker 3:That is his name, tosen, just call me Malcolm now, okay, so so is it quantity over?
Speaker 2:quality Sometimes, like the way people are successful as erotica is, they just keep shoving out book after book after book after book after book with smut scenes, and it's not necessarily the best writing, but since they're so prolific it ends up getting purchased.
Speaker 6:That is what a lot. When I first started, that's what people were telling me. They're like if you get as many as you can get out there is better, because then there's more for people to buy. And you know, people would say for some people it's 10 books, for some people it's 20 books, for some people is 30 books. It's different for everyone, but volume does matter. And so these people who maybe put out one book and quit, don't do that. You need to keep going.
Speaker 2:You can't stop, you can't just quit after foreign.
Speaker 6:Right, you got to write black hole.
Speaker 3:You got to write men in black for the red light district In domestic.
Speaker 5:Okay, america's gonna have to get on board with consensual non-consent for this place to be in the red light district, though I know.
Speaker 3:I have a question of a process question, though. One of the things that I think about a lot with writing erotica is there's like all types of layers explicitly saying something like there's a difference and sorry if this was brought up when I was gone, but like there's a difference between like shove my dick in you and you know, approach with my quaking member as I enter the sacred garden.
Speaker 4:My hot potato.
Speaker 6:That's like more floral yeah. That's like more flowery writing, yeah.
Speaker 3:And how do you, how do you go about picking what you write, cause I read erotica that like does it in, like all forms of spectrum, all its forms of spectrum. And so what? How do you, how do you decide how flowery or pornographic or explicit you're going to be describing sex For?
Speaker 6:me. It's kind of like more if I'm if I feel like I'm writing more of a smut story or if I'm writing more of an erotic romance. That kind of makes it different. But one of the things on one of the great compliments I received, I've written four stories for frolic meat. I don't know if you've heard of that. It's an ethical porn site and they so they have. They have ethical porn. They have really beautiful films and then they have stories that go along with it and I've written four for them. And one of the things that editor said to me was she says I love how you write elegantly and then you just get nasty.
Speaker 3:So like there's this combination of like.
Speaker 6:She's like just have this like. And she said there's a few writers we have and you're one of them that can do that. Or you just write just this really elegant, and then all of a sudden you just get it raunchy and it's just. It's just kind of she likes the mix of it, in other words. So I guess for me, yeah, it depends on where I'm going with the stories. It's going to be more smutty stories, it's going to be more erotic romance. That's going to change maybe how I write about it, but I'm still going to be very, still going to be explicit. I'm not one of those people where, like, I'm not going to tiptoe around it, it's fucking, it's sex, it's I'm going to use words, I'm not going to be like any put is.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to tiptoe Rubbing members.
Speaker 6:Member in my flower.
Speaker 2:Member, you say cock and pussy.
Speaker 6:I say cock and pussy, mmm, and even cunt, absolutely. It's a good word. Fuck is my favorite word.
Speaker 5:Well, particularly cuntie. I have a necklace that says cuntie Nice. We're like we're like the only country that that word is like so offensive, Like they say nobody's business in England. Like, like, like. When people say bitch, that's the same thing for cunt.
Speaker 3:It's just a better word than vagina. I used to say the word cunt for so long until I was in college and there was a friend of mine who was like it was her life's mission to make me say it. And so the first time that I ever said the word. I was whispering it into her ear. Forever stands out of my head is like that was a hot day. That was a hot day.
Speaker 2:That was a sexy, sexy day. Yeah, Cause she like pulled my head to her ear and be like you don't want to say it out loud.
Speaker 3:You just whispered in my ear but you're going to say it. I'm like, well, it looks like I'm going to say it. I don't really ever use it sexually.
Speaker 5:I'm always like, oh, she's so cunty or that is cunty. Yeah, that's how I say it.
Speaker 4:Or I'm a real cunt. Yes, it's a fun word, I like that word.
Speaker 6:You said a fun word. Fuck my contest. Pretty good too. Powerful it's, powerful sounding it is, isn't?
Speaker 4:it. Do you have any advice for anybody who wants to get started with erotica?
Speaker 2:Yes, Don't stop, don't give up. Like I said just, you've got to keep going, and you're really good at it.
Speaker 6:Don't stop, don't give up, like I said. Just, you've got to keep going and your writing is going to change. Don't ever stop reading either, because reading will give you ideas. It will broaden your own writing. Every time I read something, it affects my writing a little bit. So read and write and don't stop. And don't listen to bad reviews. Not everyone is going to like you. That's okay. Expect that, you know. If you expect it, then you're not going to be so crushed by it. You know and I think about my own self I don't love everything I write. I've read books by very famous authors that I didn't like. People take it so personally and it needs to not do that, because not everyone's going to like us.
Speaker 5:Oh my gosh, I love a lot of true facts. I don't need to.
Speaker 4:Who are some of your favorite erotic or romance writers?
Speaker 2:Me, corinne. She loves it. She can't wait to read it.
Speaker 6:I read a lot of my peers because you know, we do a lot of like promotions together and so I end up like getting free copies of their books or people ask me to read things. So I write a lot, read a lot of stories of not not like people more that aren't like huge authors. You know what I mean. They're like more middle, you know? So I guess that's so. It's probably they're not real well known, but they're just amazing. It doesn't mean that they're any less, they're totally amazing.
Speaker 4:Okay, then what's your favorite erotic book like of all time? I know that's a big, that's a big stupid question I know that's a really hard one the Bible.
Speaker 6:Oh, you know how much sex is in the Bible? That's what I think is so crazy. I do. People that are like there's so much sex in the Bible. It's crazy, Yep. And it's all rapey.
Speaker 5:I know right. So much of it is.
Speaker 6:It is, and there's people you know, multiple wives and oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Yep, do you have a favorite erotica book? Your Holy?
Speaker 6:Grail of Erotica. I am really struggling to think of one.
Speaker 4:Or like one that you have like reread and reread. That comes to mind.
Speaker 6:I generally don't reread, because I'm always reading so much that I never, go back and reread. I like Lacey Cross. She's like a peer of mine. I like Benson Wolf. I've narrated for him a couple of books, three books actually.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 6:I guess I kind of read authors that are in my like group, my writers groups.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 6:I do outside of that. That's really cool.
Speaker 4:That is really cool, Samrie.
Speaker 5:Samrie, do you have one that you go back and read? I'm only asking because I don't read erotica and I've read erotica short stories, because there's not loads of great erotica for spanking out there, and there are some I've gone back and read multiple times is would there be a novel that you would go back and read multiple times and erotica?
Speaker 4:It depends, it just depends on what I'm in the mood for, especially when you find a book that ticks all of the boxes. The boxes Right you go back and reread that book. Joey Hill has written the best erotic vampire novels, in my opinion. Oh nice, and I personally really love Cressley Cole for her Fated Mate series because they're fucking ridiculous. But I'm real mad at her right now because she ghosted her fan base for a few years oh bummer.
Speaker 3:I know.
Speaker 4:Brutal, like I think she's finally coming out of it, but I'm still still like you can't fucking like tell us any, can't be like, hey, I'm taking nothing, like just to not even say anything. Fucking sucks. And I love her books, but I'm out of her. But I love her books, but I'm out of her.
Speaker 6:She could at least say I'm taking a break, or I'm writing something else right now, or I'll be back.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think that she went through the shit in some, in some regard, and is like an off grid sort of person, but still poo, poo, poo, poo poo.
Speaker 2:Yeah, fantastic. I have a little dime update I can get if anybody's interested.
Speaker 4:Oh nah, oh no.
Speaker 5:Two things.
Speaker 4:First one is Casey, that's four, two things I saw two different subs this week.
Speaker 2:One is the preacher. I see him regularly now, priest, preacher, whichever one, I don't know. I how do I, how do I put this whole on Boo's? Just chatting with him, but he had mentioned wanting to meet everybody in the podcast because he is interested.
Speaker 2:This is the preacher, Okay, yeah. And he said and I said well, one of them has some beef with the church, so I'm not quite sure she'd be interested in meeting you. And he said, well. He said well, if she would like to take her aggression and anger out on the church, on me, I'd be okay with that.
Speaker 5:And then I said, and then I said cause?
Speaker 2:he's cause. He's a masochist big time. And I said, but well, she's a bottom, I'm not sure that's her thing. And he said, well, if she would like to watch somebody representing the church get the shit kicked out of them. And I would also offer that, saying that I would destroy him for her pleasure I thought that was just singing great.
Speaker 2:And then so there's this other sub I've seen a couple of times, who's lovely and a musician, and I may have mentioned him before. Maybe he came over and he played the music for me on my birthday.
Speaker 5:Violin, violin person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the violin player. He came back over specifically for Dom sub time and I saw him once and forgive me everybody if I'm repeating myself, I can't remember if I told the story. He came over the first time and he is not a masochist and he's not super into pain, but the response I get a lot from people is I'm not into these things, but for some reason with you, I want to do it. I don't know if that's just lip service or what, but it is happens regularly. So he came over, he played me music and then I gave him his first spanking, of which he did very well, and even at the end was like I think oh yeah, maybe I did stop by this, but he said I have some more.
Speaker 4:Please, dom, may I have some more?
Speaker 3:May I have a little more tidbits of this spanking.
Speaker 2:Again this week. He specifically for something different, so he has. He had this. We don't know what material it is. It was a silicon ring, but there was like three.
Speaker 4:Then it was made of silicon. What?
Speaker 5:You said you didn't?
Speaker 4:you didn't know what material it was, and then he said it was a silicone thing.
Speaker 2:You know what you can. You can shut the fuck up.
Speaker 4:You missed me in this box.
Speaker 5:I missed you.
Speaker 2:It was a silicone ring. There's three of them, but they were attached. It was for yeah, but bigger, not that our audience can see that it was. It was like I don't know how big that is. Any guesses? Golf ball, golf ball. No, it did not look like that.
Speaker 2:It's literally just a stretchy material and it's for penises and testicles and you put it around the balls or in the test in the penis and any, because there's three of them attached. You can do it in any way. He took all this was his toy. He got for another doll, but the doll um disappeared so he never got to use it. So he brought it up to my house.
Speaker 5:Wait, is this a cock ring?
Speaker 2:you're talking about. No, I mean it goes around the balls, oh it goes around the balls, cockrings and the whatever.
Speaker 5:Okay, perhaps then I'm talking about a cock ring.
Speaker 2:I don't know, I just work here people. Anyways, he brought it over. It's made of silicone. It's made of Go back to rehearsal Tharmerie. Bye, no stay.
Speaker 5:How about cock rings, stay, stay.
Speaker 2:Um, I make him get naked. And this is the game. He gets naked, he puts the silicone ring around his balls so they don't run away, because balls run away when you try to hurt them.
Speaker 3:They do they just?
Speaker 2:retract. They do. So. I tell him he has to play the violin while I crush his balls and if he makes a mistake while playing then he's going to get a punishment, a spanking punishment. If he succeeds at playing without mistakes while I'm crushing his balls, he'll get a punishment. This is the most fun I've had dawning ever. Okay, so this guy really accomplished violin player. His violin is like $25,000. Wow. He carts that shit over to my house, he pulls it out, he takes off his clothes. He's never played the violin naked before. I was like welcome to Spank House.
Speaker 5:No, you do.
Speaker 2:He starts playing and I take my hand and I grab his balls and I start squeezing while he's playing this I don't know Beethoven or something, I don't even know what it was, it was beautiful and I twist and I pull and I crush and I see it on his face that it is uncomfortable and it is painful. And he starts squinting his eyes and I take my nails and I jow it into his testicles. He starts making noises. He's like oh, but he is still nailing it.
Speaker 6:I am, I am impressed.
Speaker 2:I am maniacally laughing because I didn't know that this game was the best game ever invented.
Speaker 2:Like I invented the most fun game of all time called complete this task successfully while I crush your balls. Any task can go here. This was a particularly good task. He finished like it's a long piece because it's classical. I am crushing his balls the whole time. I do have some. I'm like I'm a nice mean Dom, so I don't actually want to hurt him, but there is. It is uncomfortable for him and he plays. It's so bad that he picks his head up off the chin rest sometimes and is like yelling, but playing. The motherfucker played it perfectly. Wow.
Speaker 2:I am evil, laughing from the floor Like it's like blowjob position, but it's not a blowjob, it is the opposite. And and then he's like he finishes it. He's like do you want me to play another one? And I said yes. And he said why did I offer that?
Speaker 5:And I said because you're, because you're in a great time.
Speaker 2:Wow, and he plays another piece. Motherfucker plays it perfectly. And he is in pain. The whole time I was ruthless. I was squeezing and twisting and pulling. It was so bad that one of his testicles ran away it escaped. Through the silicone, the three bands. It ejected itself from the situation. I lost it and when he was done he also lost it. He was like I don't know where it went.
Speaker 4:Oh, living in Florida yeah.
Speaker 3:How long ago this.
Speaker 5:Yesterday.
Speaker 2:Did it descend? Yes, it descended.
Speaker 5:Okay, it came back. It came up for air. I checked it later, don't worry, wait, can that like be bad, like can they go up and not come back?
Speaker 3:Yeah, if you rupture some like like the vast difference. If you rupture something there, it'll, as a safety mechanism, it'll like retract back into you. They'll do that just because they're like traumatized in any fashion. But, it can get stuck.
Speaker 5:Don't, baby, I'm wrong. Don't drag queens do that on purpose when they're tucking.
Speaker 3:Kind of they don't do like the trauma response to get their balls to retract.
Speaker 5:I didn't think that I just mean they, because I was always I Googled it, I was always curious how they got such a smooth vagina, looking Barbie vagina, and because I understand where the penis can go. But I was like, well, what about the testicles? And they said it just said that, the testicles, they just pushed them up inside their body and I was like what? And then my husband was like yeah, there's like a canal they can like hop in.
Speaker 3:And I was like, oh, science, they didn't learn that there's a little kangaroo pocket you can sit it in. That's like the most. That's mostly what's happening when you're sitting.
Speaker 5:Sit up, chill up.
Speaker 4:That makes a lot of sense Interesting. The more you know you love how all the all the females vagina havers in the room are like oh we know what that's like.
Speaker 2:Anyhoo. So he found his testicle and he got a punishment. It consisted of belting and he bought me about the leather one.
Speaker 5:It's his but it's mine, you know wait, this is the guy who didn't like pain. He bought you a belt, or he wasn't into pain, but now but?
Speaker 2:now he loves it. Yeah, Cause he's a top. He's a top normally. But what you left that?
Speaker 5:part out.
Speaker 4:But I'm telling you, if Casey can, if he is just the power of Casey, no. I know, I know, but the feel of Casey, the fabric of our lives.
Speaker 3:I don't care if it hurts, just just touch me. I don't care if it hurts, I just want.
Speaker 4:Casey to have control. Hey, hey, are you ahead?
Speaker 2:So I belted him all over the back and butt and back of the thighs and I used a wooden hairbrush and this wooden hairbrush is pretty dense and mean and I use my hand and it was like he does have a low pain tolerance. So he was. He did very well. He didn't get very red. I left a little bit of a mark. I wrote my name on his butt my new favorite thing to do. With a marker yeah With a Sharpie, sharpie, yep.
Speaker 6:Gotta be the Sharpie Casey's butt.
Speaker 2:I write Hecate in Greek. And then so did I do cane. I didn't do cane, I just did belt, brush and hand and I said and this is the first time I did this with him, which is it's a very standard thing for everybody else so we're going to do 10 more and you're going to say, you're going to count and say thank you, man After each one. And I was belting him pretty hard.
Speaker 3:Not for some people, but for him.
Speaker 2:And he said like I think he made it to two and was like I don't think I can get to 10. This is the first time I had somebody tap out and I was like okay. At first I said oh, are you?
Speaker 5:sure.
Speaker 2:And then I said, okay, we're going to go to five because I can't just let him off the hook and I can be lighter. So we went to five and then he finished up and I I'm sorry that came out wrong he finished nothing. We finished up. He was done counting.
Speaker 2:I told them to put his clothes on Give him some back rubs because I knew this was a lot for him and it's. It's so funny about pain. I've discovered, especially with spanking and impact is in the moment you're like this is the worst thing ever. I don't know if I can take it, and then it stops and you, you were like okay, but maybe just a little bit more Like it is. Stephanie is nodding her head. Yes, I think there is like this feeling of being a champion because you survived and you just feel very proud about it. But also the pain immediately dissipates with impact and spanking. Pretty quickly after the the session stops right. So it's it's within a matter of 30 seconds that somebody's like had just said they were done and then they were like but maybe we could go a little more which is pretty neat.
Speaker 2:Um, anyways, that's my, that's my job. Update.
Speaker 4:Yay, it's a dumb update Interesting.
Speaker 2:Maybe that can be ammo in some of your, some of your stories ruined. Yeah.
Speaker 6:It always helps to hear people's perspectives. I mean it totally does it. Just you can't hear those things and not have an impact. You're writing and I mean, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:Do you ever hear? I'm sure you hear things all the time and you're like, oh, I didn't know, people did that. I guess I'll start writing that into my stories.
Speaker 6:Yes, I know, I know I actually interviewed two dimes to this winter and some of the things they, some of the kinks that some people have are just they told me they're weirdest kinks they ever they ever had a client ask for and they're just very odd, very, very odd.
Speaker 1:I'm going to need some specific.
Speaker 6:Okay, the weirdest one. One of them, a client, wanted to lick her eyeballs.
Speaker 3:Sure Sure.
Speaker 6:Yeah, and then also one other one. Lick her eyeballs, like he wanted to come and lick her eyeballs, oh yeah. Yeah, and then the other thing was um, he wanted to touch her tonsils and that turned him on with his fingers, with his fingers, with his fingers. I think she said no to both of those, so many terms.
Speaker 2:I know so many inspections, so many germs, the other dumb, the most interesting one that she's had.
Speaker 6:Most unusual one, I guess, would be the answer for that is a man who was turned on by blow up toys like for the pool.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 6:He wanted to have. All he wanted was to come and watch her in you know, bathing suit play with them and that turned him on. I mean, obviously he probably had something in his youth that was like a trigger for this. Maybe when he was a child, you know, you know, something brushed along him or he just got a rouse seeing people who were playing with them and it became a kink.
Speaker 2:Amazing. I love people and all their facets, yeah.
Speaker 3:Pool, pool, pool, pool, poole noodles turned me on.
Speaker 2:What's really 100%.
Speaker 3:Oh my God, why? Because they look like a penis it one of the one of the early times someone ever touching my member while I was on a pool noodle, like they were. They were pretending to like jack off the pool noodle but like they were intentionally getting close to my member.
Speaker 6:Were you sitting on the pool noodle Cause I could see that too Like if the pool noodle was moving and you're on it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I was. I was straddling the pool noodle, so it was like underneath the water and then they were like playing with the top part of it and they kept like going underwater. Where?
Speaker 5:I was at. I have 30 black pool noodles and it's a long story, I'll tell it. I was making a Halloween decoration of a spider in my front yard that I never made, but I bought Haka five and Amazon sent me 30 and I was terrified they were going to charge me for them all because pool noodles outside of season, especially like black, like spencers not normal color are expensive and I called them and I was like I need to send these back.
Speaker 5:and they're like no, that's okay, you're not going to get charged. And I was like no, no.
Speaker 3:I also don't want these 30.
Speaker 5:Cool noodle I need you to take them back, and they didn't, and they're like you can pay for shipping to send them back and I was like you're delusional. And every year since then they're up in my attic. I'm like oh, I'll, next year I'll have four spiders in my front yard and I've never made anything. So, kosen, if you need pool noodles, I got you, that's quite the story.
Speaker 6:Oh my God, it's amazing.
Speaker 2:Does anybody have any last questions Do?
Speaker 3:you have, you talk about, like you write, the fantasies that are inspired by, inspired by. You have any, any, any gaps, any holes in there, any fantasies that haven't been written for you, that you would like someone to, for no particular reason at all.
Speaker 6:I would like to do some consent, non consent. I haven't done that yet. I would like to explore that. I do like to write a lot of Dom's sub stuff, so that definitely would fit in with some of the stuff I've written. Not that I have, not that I make myself, you know, follow certain genres or patterns or topics, but that would be one Someday I would like to get into even doing like a vampire or like monster erotica. I think that would be fun to do too. I kind of want to just do it all if I can.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 6:I'm more like fantasies that you have personally, if you feel comfortable sharing oh yes, yes, well, a lot of the most, everything I've, almost everything I've written, has been a fantasy at one point or another. For me, I would say the consent, non consent, would definitely be fit in that category, and I don't know, I kind of want to try rope, but I kind of don't. I think suspension would be one that I would like to try, have not done it and I would like to write about it, just because it's kind of like you're tied but free at the same time.
Speaker 3:It's a bit fun. You know what I mean. I'll fly you in there.
Speaker 6:I think it would be fun. I don't know if any of you have ever done suspension with anyone.
Speaker 2:I've always wanted to.
Speaker 6:Yeah, it's intriguing, isn't it? What I think is cool about it is you're tied in but you can still also move, so it's not like just strictly rope, because with rope you're just stuck. You know what I mean, like you can still kind of move with suspension. I mean, it depends how you do it. It depends on how you do it. Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 3:I have seen some one of my favorite suspensions I've ever seen, with someone tied to a tree and I was like, oh yeah, they weren't going anywhere, but they were like off the ground and then but yeah, I love it.
Speaker 3:I just I just got to the that I feel pretty comfortable flying anybody, and it's like as a bigger guy, it's important to me to be able to like not just tie up the same size people, to being able to tie up anybody. One of my partners like hyper mobility issues, and so I'm like working on like how because?
Speaker 3:that changes the way that you like support certain things, since their body can bend it, their tendons can bend extra. I mean I have to not only support where they're like, where their body weight is hanging down, but I also have to like find a way to support the other side so that it doesn't overextend, which is a magnificently fun challenge, and you know working on that.
Speaker 5:I bet it takes a long time.
Speaker 6:I bet it takes a long time to get someone into that position, right? I mean, is that like a long time consuming thing?
Speaker 3:It's not it's not too bad, right I can. I can tie most harnesses that I want to do in like a minute.
Speaker 3:Okay, that's pretty fast, yeah, and then getting them up there like another couple of minutes, if, if it's like a four different harnesses maybe, but yeah, I can't imagine from zero to getting someone fully suspended taking more than 30 minutes without some, without it being like extravagant, like the tree one took probably took a while just because prepping someone's body to be up there before you attach them is probably an ordeal. But I didn't do it and I just seen it done myself.
Speaker 2:Ruin, where can we find you?
Speaker 6:Yeah, are you on Twitter? I am. I have three accounts on Twitter. I have a lot of accounts everywhere.
Speaker 2:Let's list everything so people can find you.
Speaker 6:Okay, I'll try to remember everything. I have a lot of kind of everywhere.
Speaker 6:Okay. So on Twitter I'm raunchy is and ruin willow ruin underscore willow. On Instagram, I'm ruin willow and ruin willow author. I have ruin willow one there as well, but I've been kicked out of that account so I can't access it. So that is me, but I can't get into it. I'm on Pinterest ruin willow, my tick tock, ruin willow. I'm on tumblr. I'm on Reddit. I'm on share some ruin willow. My books are online a lot of different places Barnes and Noble, Smashwords, Amazon, Spotify audiobookscom Just possible and I'll link it in the show notes everybody.
Speaker 6:Yeah, I have a link tree that has a lot of things on. I'm on fans Lee, I am on. I just started on. Sub stack is another place I'm at and let's see my podcast is oh fuck yeah, with ruin willow and that's pretty much on all the all the podcast apps everywhere. My website is ruin willow authorcom.
Speaker 2:I know I'm like forgetting, like a ton of things if you can send it to me after the fact too, if there's something that you want to be pushed, awesome for sure. Um fucking fantastic ruin. You've been amazing. Thank you so much for joining us on talk dirty to me and really really appreciate it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, thank you so much, it was so fun.
Speaker 6:I was last. Thank you so much for having me. This was really fun. I really enjoyed it.
Speaker 2:Um and for all you sexy beast out there, you can find us on Patreon. You can go to little, renovate rent.
Speaker 2:La, la, la la, la little renegade films little renegade filmscom that links to all our stuff. We have link trees and all our stuff. So talk dirty to me pod on Instagram. Talk dirty to me pod on Twitter. Um, if you want to make a one time donation, you can do that at little renegade filmscom. Please go to our on little raid renegade filmscom, click on the podcast, click on talk dirty to me, and we have a form you can fill out.
Speaker 2:So, if you would like to guest on the show, if you're an enthusiast or an expert in some capacity and a kink um, I don't know how to name all of the things you could possibly be that would make you appealing to us, but it is a large, it is a large category of things. So if you have a story or a kink we haven't talked about, please hit me up on the on the form so that we can um, so we can get you on here or we can discuss your story or what have you. We have a lot of stuff on the form right now and I have a episode that's dog year just to talk about all that form stuff. So if you've submitted something, thank you so much. I promise we're getting to it, um, and I am going to put a call out there.
Speaker 2:I would love to find somebody who can talk to us, um, expertly and safely about fisting, both of the vaginal sort and the anal sort. So if you do, you um Tosen has somebody, but please, if you are that person or you know that person, reach out to us, fill out the form, send it to us, because we can have more than one person talk about fisting Um, and I'm going to put out a call every time, a different call every time, because I want all these things discussed. Uh yeah, so thanks for you, sexy beasts. Until next time, let's all write some smart, shall we?
Speaker 4:Yeah, hot potato.
Speaker 2:Bye.
Speaker 5:Bye.
Speaker 7:Talk Dirty to Me is a podcast by Little Renegade Films.
Speaker 4:It stars Sarah Marie Curry, casey Sammy Casey why don't you sound real sexy while you do it? Do I? No, why don't you? Oh, why don't I?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you, remember how you read your synopsis and you're like oh, you want me to do it like that, yes.
Speaker 7:Okay, genius, okay, talk Dirty to Me is a podcast by Little Renegade Films. It stars Sarah Marie Curry, casey Sammy, tosen Alifaso and Stephanie Spock, with silent contributions by Taylor Novak. Title and closing themes by Tosen Alifaso. Follow us on the social medias at talkdirtytomeepodcom and for more of our offerings, go to littlerenegadefilmscom.
